Wednesday, February 24, 2010

Golden Canadian Olympic Hottie of the Olympics and a Canada-Russia Preview and Open Thread

FUCK YEAH!!! Our hottest hottie comes up with a gold medal? Goddammit she rules the Olympics. Say hi to Ashleigh McIvor, but you know that already. Ski cross goddess, in more ways than one.

Around the Games yesterday, our women bobsledders are off to a great start, in 1st place after 2 of 4 runs. And Joannie Rochette fought tears and all odds to come up with a magnificent and courageous 3rd place performance in the short program. Nous sommes avec vous Joannie.

OK, hockey. Canada took care of business last night against the Germans in front of the FHF faithful at Hurleys. Thanks to some strategic free shots of Black Bush, a wonderful time was had by all. I'm not sure how much of the game we saw, because the one-liners were flying fast and furious. Anyway, the win has earned Canada a quarterfinal dance with the Russians, 730 PM on CTV. Lose and you're, well, you're a big loser. You can bet Luongo starts again. Sid-Ovie. Rooting against Vodkov. What else do you need to say? It's Canada-Russia. No preview required. Let's do this thing.

Oh, one pic of Ashleigh wasn't enough? I don't blame you. Go pants, or lack thereof.

178 comments:

moeman said...

I'm in lust.

moeman said...

Also.

LukieNussbaum11 said...

Happy birthday Kovy.

habsss said...

What's with her mouth?

Boob Gainey said...

And here I thought "strategic free shots of Black Bush" was a reference to Cheryl Barnard nudie pics.

lawyergirl77 said...

And a happy birthday to you, Mrs. Nussbaum!!

Habsfan10 said...

Maltsev. Kharmalov. Tretiak. The 8-1 whupping in the '81 Canada Cup. Tikhonov. KLM Line. 50 years of watching their pros beat on our kids. Ovie and his "look at me, I'm the greatest show on earth" and "fuck everyone, I'm Ovie" sideshow shit. Diving. Bugged hotel rooms. Guys whistling in the face-off circle after blasting Dryden for 7 goals in '72. Quebec City 2008.

Fuck Canada-US. This is our biggest rival. GO YOU FUCKING CANADIANS GO!!!!

LukieNussbaum11 said...

@LG
Thanks. Can't wait for the house to stop spinning.

Habsfan10 said...

I second LG77's sentiments. Happy Birthday, Nussbaum!!!! May the brood leave you in peace for the day.

Moey said...

@Habsfan10,

Ditto. Especially the Ovie part.

LN11,

Happy Birthday, just have a hair of the dog, you'll be fine.

Robbie said...

@ moeman, I just became a curling fan.

@10 Right on the mark. The cold war never ended. Not in hockey anyways.

This might get me some flack but what the fuck the biggest game of the last 4 years happens tonight so what the fuck here i go. That penalty shot fiasco last night seriously pissed me off. The shot was Nash's to take (yes i know he had not scored so far up to that point) but here is my fucking problem. ''Sid the whiney Kid'' is not Wayne or Mario, or Steve or Sakic or anyone that i remotely care about as a hockey hero for Canada. (Oh and Toews is number 1 in the league in penalty shots). Someone wants to force that little fuck down most of our throats. I personally cannot stand the overrated status. Is he a good player? Absolutely. Is he a superstar. NO! Is he a fabricated superstar? YUP!

Last night showed just how much someone in Hockey Canada wants us to believe that Sidney is going to take us to the top. Its Bullshit and shame on whoever is forcing the hand. It was 4-0 mid second period and it was clear that this game was not going to be lost. If it had been 10 minutes left in the third with a 3-1 lead and you think Nash isn't the go to guy then fine. But not with a 4-0 lead against the Germans.

The Canadian team will have their hands full against the Russians tonight and i would not be the first one to step up and lay down a bunch of cash for a Sid vs Ovie bet. Regardless of what you don't like about Ovie the simple fact is the guy is fucking super talented, entertaining, physical and leaves it all on the ice.

I'll be cheering Canada but it has nothing to do with Sid!

GO CANADA!

Robbie said...

LN11 Happy B-Day!

ezzeloharr said...

@LN11: Happy Birthday! =D

Moey said...

@Robbie, that "fabricated" superstar is tied with Ovechkin in goals, or is that a type-o? Check it out and let me know.

Babcock is not there to be a nice guy, or massage egos, he's there to win fucking hockey games. You give the penalty shot to the guy who's most likely going to get it in the net, regardless of the score. Pad the lead as much as possible. I get that.

I hope Sid & the boys beat his scruffy arse tonight.

Moey said...

For clarity "Ovie's scruffy arse tonight."

Chester said...

@ Robbie,

Agreed, au bout. I was always wondering why I have this itching burning sensation in my ass and it's because we get Crosby shoved in every orifice at every opportunity. Sure he can play but he isn't Gods gift to hockey. I'm just so fed up with the Crosby hype machine. That shot was Nash's to take. He prob would have buried it.

Boob Gainey said...

My take on the penalty shot controversy:

I can't summon up the mental energy to even mull it over. I'm like that donkey who is equidistant between two identical bales of hay.

Habsfan10 said...

I like Crosby much, much more than I like Ovie but I think Nash should have been allowed to take that shot last night. Especially given the situation.

People certainly want Crosby to be the biggest star. That's not his fault. He's a terrific hockey player, maybe (maybe) the best in the world. It's natural that people want to turn him into the Next One.

L Dude said...

@Robbie: I'm a Crosby fan, but I agree with you that Nash should have been given the shot.

Has he stepped up to superstar status this tournament? Nope, not yet. Is he a superstar? I'd say any player with 1.35 pts/game over their career would qualify as such. See Ovechkin, A. and Crosby, C.

I like watching Ovie too, though he plays dangerously close to the line. But maybe that's what makes him fun to watch.

3-2 final tonight. Just not sure for whom.

orangeman said...

Happy birthday Mrs. Nussbaum!

Go lady bobsledders!
Go Groves and Hughs!
Go lady short trackers!
Go men cross-country-ers!
Go Team Canada!

Today could be big. Or I could go to bed crying. Again. Why break the 10 year streak now?

RiRi said...

Happy Birthday LN11!!! Have a great one!

Also, GO Canada GO!

Boob Gainey said...

The argument for Crosby being better than Ovie has always been that he is "more complete" i.e. he also plays well in his own end.

But wasn't he on the ice for a lot of goals against in this tournament?

Also, Ovie is +43 and Sid is +9 this season.

If you take away defence, then there is no question that Ovechkin is the better player. And it sounds like you can take away defence.

El Oso said...

I'm with you Robbie. You have to wonder what kind of effect that has on Nash and the rest of the guys in the locker room.

I still thought we were sloppy in our own end. And I think Luongo's pads are made of rubber -- they would slingshot the puck back into the high slot.

Finally, SWEET JESUS the hottie of the day is hot.

Chenny13 said...

Hotties of the day sure brighten up a person's morning. And hottie she sure is. +100 to LJ for suggesting her last night.

Great day overall for the Olympic team. No real disappointments, which is why I'm sure today will be filled with them. Will it be bobsledders going down the track backwards? Short Track speedskaters crashing into the boards? Luongo in tears after getting lit up? Who knows. Call me a pessimist, but the precedent has been set for heart-crushing losses so far. Prove me wrong, Olympians!

Go, Canadian Pants!

Also, thoughts with the Rochette family. Joannie's performance last night was incredible. Definition of the olympic spirit.

moeman said...

Bonne Fête **11!

NFLDHab said...

@Habsfan10

Agree totally, screw those Russian pricks. And Pronger or Getzlaf needs to go all Bobby Clarke on Harlemov on Ovie circa 72.

I know, not very sporting of me, but fuck that, I want that gold!!

ezzeloharr said...

@NFLDHab:

With all due respect, I think that Clarke slashing Kharlamov was one of the most shameful and dishonourable incidents in hockey history. If one of our guys does anything remotely similar, I will not cheer for Canada.

LukieNussbaum11 said...

Thanks all for the wishes.

Canada better not ruin my day. If they get disqualified tonight they'll have Nussbaum to answer to. I don't know what that means but I just love writing the name Nussbaum.

Chester said...

@ NFLDHab

Hey fuck the sporting thing, no Ruskie ever complained about the Clarke hack and you can tell whats up with them by the amount of moaning about the skating gold. They were so used to the olympic mark fixing that they thought a gold in figure skating was a birthright. Play fair ?? Ya right. Good thing Poutin can't shut off our oil, cause if he could he prob would.
Ya I'm angry, I can't drink two nights in a row like I used to. This isn't fair to all the old Canadian livers out there.

Le Douze said...

In my fantasy (the hockey kind, not the kind with Cheryl B), Ovie will go knee-on-knee with Pronger and take them both out of the game, but not before drilling 3 or 4 brutal snap shots off the posts and crossbar, none in the net. I can think he's a great player and and incredible a*hole at the same time. And yes, it should have been Nash's shot.

BTW, the folks that make the curling ladies calendar say they will ask Cheryl to participate next time. Now all we have to do is figure out how to get her to say yes. Would she do it if Wayne asked her? Iggy? (I hear she's a Flames season ticket holder).

wv: steev (why?)

hfotwc said...

This is some unbelievable hockey we're treated to. It'll be hard to go back to Habs suckage.

@le12, yeah I hope it happens too. Or maybe if Pronger do the peewee twist again, he'll throw his back out or break his ankle or something, anything to keep him off the fuckin ice.

@ Mrs. Nussbaum; Happy Birtday and GO Canada Go, Go Sid!

Boob Gainey said...

No Philadelphia Flyer should ever be allowed to play for Canada.

moeman said...

Clara gets a Bronze! Congrats!!!

Melly said...

Ladies 5000m was an awesome event.

Oval record set, and re-set, and re-set again, and at the end of it all, a bronze for Hughes!

Congratulations on a wonderful Olympic career, Clara!!

the Maritimer said...

As a fellow Maritimer I'll take Sid over Ovie, already a Stanley Cup champion. I hope he signs with his childhood favourites, the Montreal Canadiens, when he becomes a UFA in two years. Fuck Pittsburgh and Super Mario's franchise.

And a Happy Birthday to the Photo Shop lady and her new handle which kind of rhymes with Thermonuclearbomb...

Thank God Luongo is in nets. We have a chance now.

Melly said...

Go Canadian Pants!

HabsFan29 said...

FUCK IM NERVOUS

RiRi said...

I`m so nervous I`m nauseous!

HabsFan29 said...

FUCK YEAH!!!!

Getzlaf? Who?

moeman said...

Beer helps.

Go you fucking Canadians!

1-0!!!!!!!

RiRi said...

Getzlaf!!

HabsFan29 said...

nice intensity

HabsFan29 said...

Datsyuk, Afinoganov, and Kovalchuk the trailer. and that's the SECOND line. oy

Number31 said...

Getslapped!

moeman said...

Keep this up!

HabsFan29 said...

best 6 minutes of Canadian hockey in a long time. let them multiply that by 10

RiRi said...

Uh oh...

Number31 said...

Correction 29. Best 6 minutes of Canadian hockey RUINED by that THING between the benches.

Morozov did a barrel roll!

HabsFan29 said...

Canada should never have a penalty according to McSplooge

boob gainey said...

How many times has McSplooge used the "people are wondering why is on this team; this is why."?

moeman said...

Let me be the first,

STFU!

HabsFan29 said...

GAH

RiRi said...

He NEVER shuts up. There`s NEVER a moment of silence. He`s just constantly yapping.

HabsFan29 said...

FUCK YEAH

moeman said...

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RiRi said...

Just as I was willing Weber to smoke one through the net!!

HabsFan29 said...

TRIPLE FUCK YEAH!!!!!!

RiRi said...

Hell yes!!!

moeman said...

NASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Number31 said...

Mwahahahaha

Number31 said...

Bykov will start blaming the food.

HabsFan29 said...

aw crap

HabsFan29 said...

DONT GET COMPLACENT

HabsFan29 said...

Morrow? Really?

moeman said...

Carbo's son-in-law!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RiRi said...

The 3-goal cushion is restored!

Number31 said...

Nabby knows all about getting owned by Brendan Morrow

moeman said...

McSTFU!

boob gainey said...

Outstanding.

That loss to the US might well have helped us.

moeman said...

Is it me or was the crowd chanting Nussbaum!, Nussbaum!, Nussbaum!

HabsFan29 said...

heh @ moe

oh look, short track! choking time!

LukieNussbaum11 said...

@Moe
The name is infectious!

Just got home. I hope my being out for dinner isn't why it's 4-1. If Russia scores again, I'll leave.

HabsFan29 said...

STAY AWAY FROM THE BEING OUT TO DINNER CURSE

moeman said...

heh McSTFU! says he knew that the Ruskies wouldn't pull Nabokov. Sure.

moeman said...

Oh yeah!!!!!!!!

HabsFan29 said...

NOW McSTFU will say to pull Nabokov

Number31 said...

Tall Dutch skater bumped our girl and nearly took her and the speedy Korean out...and bumped our girl to fourth. Will they qualify her anyway because of the bump?

Oh hi, Perry. NOW YOU SUDDENLY BECOME USEFUL?!

bea.habs.fan said...

this is getting embarrassing for Russia.
Siberia is going to see its population suddenly shot up if this goes on

boob gainey said...

Markov looked real bad on the last Canada goal.

RiRi said...

RIDICULOUS!!!

Number31 said...

It's holey the goalie.

HabsFan29 said...

this is getting ridiculous

moeman said...

6 to fucking 1!

How about now McSTFU!

kevincrumbs said...

Wow, Nabokov sucks. Playing Hiller and the Swiss earlier today was much tougher than this shit.

San Jose Sharks = team of chokers.

HabsFan29 said...

they're still Russian and can still score

Number31 said...

I wonder if Lindy Ruff is annoyed whenever Afinogenov scores...

bea.habs.fan said...

@#31 given that it's easier for him to get laid in Russia than in Buffalo, this explains that

(I remmeber previous conversations about Russian prostitutes)

kevincrumbs said...

So, do you guys start singing the goodbye song now?

moeman said...

Is it me or is the crowd chanting OLukie! OLukie! OLukie!

HabsFan29 said...

no really, it's 7-2?

Number31 said...

Ole ole ole ole~

boob gainey said...

I take back anything bad I said about Perry and Getzlaff.

bea.habs.fan said...

who would have thought the swiss would be tougher than the Russkies

HabsFan29 said...

you just cant enjoy a five goal lead anymore

boob gainey said...

Not over.

Number31 said...

@bea - Except he now plays for the Thrashers. Southern Belles and fried foods did him wonders, I guess.

What was that about 7-2 leads are insurmountable?

Melly said...

HF29 knows...
The dudes in red, they can score in bunches.

Bobby Lu, keep an eye out.

LukieNussbaum11 said...

@bea
Dr. Nussbaum just said the same thing. I supose knowing that failure leads to death makes for passionate play. That Russian coach has the evil glare of the cold war in his eyes....or maybe it's just heartburn from all of those McDonald French fries.

boob gainey said...

Things I'm getting tired of at these Olympics:

1. Lindsey Vonn

2. "Lu Lu Lu" every time he touches the puck.

LukieNussbaum11 said...

@Moe
Olukie. She lives on the second floor.

Number31 said...

Luongo takes a swig of water.
LUUUUUUUUU!

Luongo stops the puck along the boards.
LUUUUUUUUU!

Luongo farts in his crease.
LUUUUUUUUU!

Number31 said...

C'mooooooooooon Hamelin GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! 41seconds! WOO!

kevincrumbs said...

7-3? Stop being modest, people! This game is over, you guys are going to the semis.

bea.habs.fan said...

@#31 my bad
for some reason I thought he was in the KHL

@LN11 I work with Drs so I guess I now think like them

WV: comettes (Canada's forwards to the Russian D?)

LukieNussbaum11 said...

@bea
Trust me, that's not the dr in him. He's just incredibly unPC.

Number31 said...

I just looked up to my TV and saw a bunch of freaky floating Luongo heads.

bea.habs.fan said...

@LN11
eh ! are you calling me un PC !!!
I pride myself on my canadianess

bea.habs.fan said...

crossing my fingers: Canadian women bobsleigh in 1st after 3 runs

go girls go

Moey said...

I don't believe it. I treated myself to a pre-game nap at 5:30 and just woke up. I dreamt we were winning 5-4. Ha! Happy days, has Owretchkin scored any? Is McSplooge spent yet?

moeman said...

@SleepyMoey, OV has been invisible. Sadly McSTFU! hasn't.

bea.habs.fan said...

who's in goal for russia now?

lawyergirl77 said...

Hey guys - I'm having a crazy night!! See, I stopped taking cold meds for the first time in 18 days today and I've been having WICKED withdrawal symptoms.

I mean, the headaches and general fatigue were brutal, but now i'm haucinating that Canada was up 7-3 on the Russians.

Crazy, eh?

moeman said...

@bea, Bryzgalov.

lg77, are you sure it isn't McSTFU!'s voice that's reeking havok with your mind?

Number31 said...

Well. Screw you too, Volchenkov.

They won't call that, but they'll call the hooking! Watch out for that dangerous hooking!

bea.habs.fan said...

WOW other than hitting, Ovie is a nonentity in this game so far

moeman said...

OV is waiting for Sochi.

HabsFan29 said...

McSTFU! can count to "too many". well done

Number31 said...

Third time's a charm eh? Too many Russians.

bea.habs.fan said...

Tretiak must be wondering what he was thinking when he chose his coach

Moey said...

@mmoeman,

I could sleep for Canada right now.

The boys can't afford to nap against these pesky Russians, we need more goals.

moeman said...

Happy they chose Cuthbert over Gord Phlegmiller.

Number31 said...

I think Ted Leonsis just freaked.

bea.habs.fan said...

from all in the russian end, it seems to be mostli in our end now

Bill 101 said...

anybody know what that black paddle-like thing sticking out of Ovie's pants is?

boob gainey said...

"2 minutes for being strong"

Number31 said...

BRAVO PRONGER YOU ARSEHOLE. Just GIVE them any excuse to call you on something...

moeman said...

Nice catch boob, McSTFU! is channelling his man love for pronger, NTTIAWWT.

Number31 said...

It's weird they got Markov playing on the other side...

HabsFan29 said...

what was all that about markov??

HabsFan29 said...

Bronze for the women's short track relay. nicely done gals! you stayed on your feet.

moeman said...

Congrats to our skating gals!

RiRi said...

Congrats to the ladies!

How bad was Markov in this game? He must still be injured.

bea.habs.fan said...

@HF29 did we just jump russia in the medal standings
that's going to be the icing on thier cake

HabsFan29 said...

short track DQ! Canada up to silver! Rod Black just had a heart attack i think

moeman said...

Skating gals are SILVER (there was a DQ)

boob gainey said...

Silver!

HabsFan29 said...

McSTFU! is McSplooging all over the coaches. Mike BabCOCK better run

bea.habs.fan said...

nice gesture by Ovie for Crosby - an extra way to go tap

RiRi said...

No medal for you, Russia!

HabsFan29 said...

i hate the olympics. i get heart palpitations watching things like women's bobsled

moeman said...

Speaking of Olympic gals and heart palpitations, tomorrow's front page will be hottie central!

WV = woodger

moeman said...

'Rack' up those medals me ladies.

Number31 said...

Attention world: Canadian women rock at bobsleigh.

bea.habs.fan said...

at lest 3 medals today!!!!

wow ladies don't choke !!!!

moeman said...

Silver, now get the gold!

HabsFan29 said...

FUCK YEAH BOBSLED

bea.habs.fan said...

WOOHOO
another gold with on emore canadian team to go

bea.habs.fan said...

gold and silver

4 medals in a day
WOOHOO LADIES

HabsFan29 said...

own THAT podium, w00t!!!

moeman said...

I love Canadian women!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Number31 said...

YA LADIES! GOLD AND SILVER!

RiRi said...

They weren`t kidding when they said the second week would be better!

gillis said...

How will all the hot photos of the four bobsleighers and the whole relay team fit in one post?

moeman said...

@gillis, I'm sure our **11 can work some of her magic.

orangeman said...

CTV: "Wonderful Wednesday". No freaking kidding. Leave it to the ladies.

I have no doubt our lovely lady hockey queens will lead us to the promised land tomorrow. And curling semis. And Rochette. And Aerial finals. Oh my!

I wasn't able to comment during the game because my sister charged me with caring for my 8 month old neice. She loves watching hockey, though. And, oddly, curling.

Go Canada!

Bill 101 said...

Other game: Saku or Pleks?

Number31 said...

Poor Pleky... He'll never win a faceoff against Mikko Koivu.

Oddly enough he wins them against Saku D:

RiRi said...

Saku!!

orangeman said...

I wish a solid silver medal for Saku. I love that little guy.

Re: short track DQ. Koreans still utter death threats against Ohno 8 years later. I can't wait to see the burning effigies in the streets upon my return to Korea. I'm no expert, but that call, like the one in 2002, is very suspect. And trust me, I am no defender of Korean athletes.

But w00t! Silver!

orangeman said...

Watching the interview with the bobsledders thanking Canada, sharing their glory, finding out their involvement with Haiti. Our short trackers being gracious with Tania becoming the first Canadian to medal in 4 straight Olympics, Clara equaling the Canadian medal record at age freaking 37. Our hockey team owning the Ruskies.

Is this what pride feels like? It's....it's been so long.

/whipes tear away

orangeman said...

I'm probably talking to myself here now (besides my glass of whiskey), but also it's good news that the Swedes beat GB in curling because GB is the only team to beat Canada in the last few years. I know this because I'm on vacation and it's cold outside and I've become my sister's designated babysitter, so my afternoons are consumed by rocks and sweeping.

In closing,

GO CANADA!

Number31 said...

Considering our population, and the army of athletes USA has (seriously, they got like 10+ per event), the fact Canada is now tied with them in gold medals is quite the feat.

LukieNussbaum11 said...

@Orange
What's happening on Days of our Lives?

RiRi said...

Anyone finding this CZE/FIN a little dull?

Then again, after that CAN/RUS game, nothing compares!

orangeman said...

LN11: I wouldn't know because I am obsessed with the HGTV channel. If I could have that channel beamed into my brain continuously 24/7 I would be a happy man.

This is my life. Curling, infants, HGTV and binge drinking. I'm basically a 45 year old house wife.

But I'm happy.

orangeman said...

@RiRi: It is boring, but you're right after Can-Rus it would take a UFO invasion to get my attention. And even then they better have viginas as faces.

LukieNussbaum11 said...

@Orange
DrNuss spends his days listening to aliens with vaginas and, believe it or not, it gets old quick.

RiRi said...

@orangeman - Ha! Maybe SVK/SWE will be better. If I can stay awake through this one...


Bryzgalov on Canada's start: "They came like gorillas out of a cage."

That`s one way to put it.

orangeman said...

@LN11: I find that funny. I don't do the L followed by the O which is then ended with an L. Trust me, though, I thought about it, chuckled, then realized the relevance at which point I laughed in a vocal manner.

RiRi: Canada came out like Jason on Friday the 13th in front of Satan. I could tell within the first minute there was no way they were going to lose. I think I got an erection, or a 'Hockey Boner' as my guidance counsellor used to call it.

Chenny13 said...

I asked the Olympic Team to prove me wrong, and boy, did they ever. 4 medals and an absolute demolition job on the 'Red Army'? Does it get any better? Uh, no. I don't think so.

Hopefully the entire olympic squad keeps this momentum up. I'd love to see Canada grab 10 or 11 gold medals.

Oh Canada!

orangeman said...

Finns!!!!!!

RiRi said...

Time to come back home Pleky!

orangeman said...

Finns! Koivu with an A (EN, whatever). I have little doubt the Finns can beat the US. So, see you in the final.

RiRi said...

Doesn`t that A give Koivu some sort of record? Or am I getting mixed up with Selanne?

orangeman said...

@RiRi: I believe that record (most Olympic pts) belongs to Selanne. But Koivu owns the record that spins me round, right round, like a record baby, right round, round round. In my heart.

Aaaaaand, time to put the whiskey down.

orangeman said...

Holy crap, is it going to be Halak vs Canada next game?

And with that a Swede goal.

orangeman said...

Halak vs Canada.

My Friday night just got way more interesting.

Not Geoff Molson said...

Halak vs. Canada...

Goalies who are left - Luongo, Halak, Kiprusoff, Miller...not a bad bunch...